Half banana

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Posts by Half banana

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  23

  A Subtle Factor That Keeps Witnesses Silenced

  by freemindfade in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  had an interesting thought this morning.

  when a witness is 'in' they think everyone else is following and trying there best all in unity.

  i believe the reality is there are a lot of us 'in' who know different.

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  Half banana

  FMF, I have to be controversial, it is of course true there are a great crowd (to borrow a phrase) of JWs who are non believers. But what evidence is there that HQ are aware? They have always droned on about the spiritually weak, is there a significant change now?

  I feel the GB members are earnest in their delusions, I think they would be horrified to know the reality. The response to finding this out would be a big witch hunt to denounce and chastise the “dead wood” within their ranks. If we see such in the WT then we’ll know they have learned.

  One of my closest friends is outwardly a JW, but hates the religion, it sickens him, and he feels he has wasted his life in the cult but remains for the sake of family peace.

  So I have asked him about others in his situation and he knows others in the same boat but here’s the problem: to speak to others is to cross a line and open the can of worms which leads to disfellowshipping, which would be worse than the status quo.

  I would be very interested if there are other non-believing JWs who can openly speak to fellow non-believers or doubters in their own or other congregations. If they can do so, it would be possible to develop an underground network leading to a rebellion and mass exodus that could be the beginning of the end of the organisation.
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  10

  The art of being "Self referential" JW style....

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  have you noticed how everything from the gb or witnesses in general is "self referential"?.

  by this i mean that they adopt the method of using their own quotes, facts, statistics, teachings, events etc....to "prove" the new points made!.

  so for example, a teaching point or doctrinal reference is brought out, and in order to "prove" it, the gb will use their own self referential past points to back it up!.

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  Half banana

  @oubliette, yes “evidently” is the signature Watchtower weasel word used by Russell, Rutherford and Fred Franz. When put in conjunction with the “overlapping generation” doctrine as you have recorded, it is truly stretched beyond all reason. Categorically and specifically it is absolutely NOT evident that the text meant "overlapping".
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  10

  The art of being "Self referential" JW style....

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  have you noticed how everything from the gb or witnesses in general is "self referential"?.

  by this i mean that they adopt the method of using their own quotes, facts, statistics, teachings, events etc....to "prove" the new points made!.

  so for example, a teaching point or doctrinal reference is brought out, and in order to "prove" it, the gb will use their own self referential past points to back it up!.

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  Half banana

  Ah but you gotta remember they are demi-gods now, self appointed no less... so demi-gods can quote themselves...
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  19

  Bible Group in Boston

  by Agape.Love in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  happy easter!

  my husband and i who are former jws are starting a new bible discussion group on sundays @1pm, south of boston.

  we will begin the group on sunday may 3rd.

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  Half banana

  Agape.love, although you rightly say some people don’t believe in Jesus. (I don’t feel in need of being saved from anything) I have good evidence that I am going to die and as yet nobody has found a practical working cure for death. Therefore Jesus has no significant meaning for me.

  On the other matter, one can hardly ignore the Bible since it is the most influential and widely printed books in the world. It is fascinating as a testament to human aspiration, a paradigm of religious propaganda, a mine of pointed psychological situations and also a literary masterpiece; polished and refined to the point where its origins are completely lost by surface reading of the contents.

  So I genuinely wish your study group well but suggest the caveat of “surface” reading.
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  19

  Bible Group in Boston

  by Agape.Love in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  happy easter!

  my husband and i who are former jws are starting a new bible discussion group on sundays @1pm, south of boston.

  we will begin the group on sunday may 3rd.

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  Half banana

  oops dubblepost
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  19

  Bible Group in Boston

  by Agape.Love in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  happy easter!

  my husband and i who are former jws are starting a new bible discussion group on sundays @1pm, south of boston.

  we will begin the group on sunday may 3rd.

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  Half banana

  Agape, if you want to study the Bible texts, unlike the Watchtower you must think about why the particular piece was written, who wrote it, where, when and for what purpose? Just one example:

  Why was the early Christ sect discussing the problems of feeding the followers from which later readers interpret a faithful and discreet slave as being a ”class” by divine appointment? By looking at what religions did at that time it is found that they supplied meals for the members, who would contribute money for the common pool if they could, to fund such activities. The presbyteroi (elders) who might have collected the money and given it to the episcopoi (bishops) would have been troubled by those who just came for a free lunch... and the church then was predominantly for the poor. The poor, being canny, would go to any and every cult providing meals so the episcopoi would have asked the rhetorical question “Who is the faithful and discreet slave which his master gave over all his belongings” to get the attendees to imagine that the poser of the question belonged to the ones chosen by God. Cult loyalty was everything.

  The Greek scriptures are about the struggles of the Pauline-Jesus religion jockeying for market dominance. They have no prophetic meaning at all but the language and talk is “cultic” and apocalyptic which is why the WTBTS still use that old discussion to further their own influence and membership numbers today.

  Most of the Bible is borrowed from paganism... around eighty three per cent is neither original text nor original story. Jesus is not original. The story of a fictional character exactly fulfilling the role ascribed to Jesus began many centuries if not millennia before the start of our calendar.

  One of the best ways to determine historical truth is to see what people were doing, saying and believing at the time period in question, the science of this aspect of history is sociology.

  Someone who took this (sociological) viewpoint and the end of the nineteenth century was JM Robertson and one of his books which should be read by all Bible students is A Short History of Christianity. Another relevant book, of which there are many titles on the same theme is Christianity Before Christ by John G Jackson (ISBN: 9870910309202) AAPress.

  I wish you well with your Bible studies.
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  13

  The "great crowd" before 1935 and since

  by Doug Mason in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what was the seismic shift in thinking that rutherford required when he created the great multitude in 1935?

  when did the great multitude, or the great crowd as it is now known, become jehovahs witnesses?.

  http://www.jwstudies.com/the_great_crowd_before_1935_and_since.pdf.

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  Half banana

  Thank you Doug for trawling through the archives for our benefit.

  Doesn’t the record of Watchtower doctrine expose the ad hoc decisions they have constantly made to assert whatever is most convenient at the time. Each change of belief is based on what GB members had wrongly assumed to be plausible perhaps only a year or two previously. They are not dealing with divine truth...far from it; they are dealing with the flimsy whims of the imagination but claiming it to be from God.

  A good example of this is the notion that “the great multitude” were not Jehovah’s Witnesses, only the “anointed” were...until 1948! The Watchtower only speaks garbage, none of their pontifications are true and testable.

  How can any edifice (and especially a tower) be built on shifting sands...?
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  33

  Evidence for an Egyptian Presence In Early PalestineEgyptian Artifacts Salvaged from Robbed Tomb in Israel

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. social
  2. current

  i've posted evidence elsewhere indicating that ancient israel was at times part of the egyptian empire.

  that means that the exodus documents incorporated into the old testament, is a mythical story.

  the israelites did not leave egypt.

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  Half banana

  Hoser, they never left Egypt because they never went there. If the Bible were true, it would be like saying that that Mexico went to the USA. Because Egypt was infinitely more powerful than Judah, individuals were continuously attracted there for work and trading.

  The story of the Exodus from Egypt was not a historical reality but a metaphor of their collective desire to be freed from the influence of their Egyptian overlords.
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  33

  Evidence for an Egyptian Presence In Early PalestineEgyptian Artifacts Salvaged from Robbed Tomb in Israel

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. social
  2. current

  i've posted evidence elsewhere indicating that ancient israel was at times part of the egyptian empire.

  that means that the exodus documents incorporated into the old testament, is a mythical story.

  the israelites did not leave egypt.

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  Half banana

  Thanks for information Fulltime, the evidence goes toward confirming that the Hebrew writings are the nationalistic bluster and imaginings of a small tribe conscious of their poverty and political impotence.
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  17

  Why only 7 or 8 members on the Governing Body?

  by Gilgamesh in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  now and then someone hears a rumor that the gb might go with 12 members instead of the 8 (or now 7) they currently have.

  the value of 12 is understandable, which might even drive the rumors every time they plan to add another 4 or 5 new persons to the gb helpers list.

  of course, a rumor that steals their thunder may also promote a delay, even if true.. i'm sure this quote from the watchtower was previously commented upon as a good explanation for the watch tower's best reason to leave the number at 7 or 8:.

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  Half banana

  Probably can’t afford more than seven now and as you say Village idiot, it must be hard to find heaven- hopers who aren’t already condemned as suspect or mad...